EP # 177 - From Accidental Discovery to Thriving Business: A Client Success Story with Jennifer Illsley-Hall, owner of Deliberate Decisions

In this inspiring episode, Maggie Perotin interviews Jennifer Jennifer Illsley-Hall, founder of Deliberate Decisions, a professional organizing company. 
Jennifer shares her remarkable journey from accidentally discovering her natural organizing talents to building a successful professional organizing business in British Columbia, Canada. 

Tune in to this episode to learn how vulnerability, trust, and professional guidance can transform both clients' lives and business growth.

Key Highlights:
[00:01:00] - Jennifer's origin story: How an accidental closet organization led to a business 
[00:04:00] - Why hiring a professional organizer makes sense 
[00:05:00] - The importance of vulnerability in transformation 
[00:07:00] - Powerful transformation story of one of Jennifer's clients
[00:13:00] - Jennifer's business transformation through coaching 
[00:18:00] - Overcoming the fear of public speaking 
[00:22:00] - The power of strategic partnerships 
[00:25:00] - Future vision and business growth

Key Takeaways:
• Not everyone has natural organizing abilities - it's a unique skill set worth outsourcing 
• Professional organizing often addresses deeper life transitions and emotional needs 
• The importance of building trust and creating safe spaces for clients 
• How business coaching can transform both personal confidence and business results 
• The value of pushing through comfort zones for business growth

Notable Quote: "Vulnerability is absolutely key to a really awesome transformation." - Jennifer

About Jennifer Illsley-Hall and Deliberate Decisions:
Jennifer serves clients throughout the Lower Mainland and Greater Vancouver area, specializing in: 
• Home organization 
• Downsizing/Upsizing assistance 
• Moving services 
• Estate clearings 
• Professional decluttering

Connect with Jennifer:
https://www.deliberatedecisions.ca/
IG - https://www.instagram.com/deliberatedecisions/
LinkedIN - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennifer-illsley-hall-professional-organizer/

Ready to Transform Your Business Like Jennifer?
Book a free consultation with Maggie Perotin at https://stairwaytoleadership.com/ and discover how business coaching can help you achieve similar results. Jennifer doubled her revenue in just one year - you could be next!

Transcript

[00:00:00] Hello, everybody. Welcome to Diamond Effect podcast, episode 177. Today I have a fabulous guest, one of my amazing clients, Jennifer. I'm so excited you agreed to do this, Jennifer. Welcome. Thanks, Maggie. Thanks for asking me. I'm excited to be here too. Awesome. Okay. 

So Jennifer will be mostly speaking, not me, for once. So Jennifer, if you want to start by just introducing yourself, telling us a little bit about you, about your business, how you started, why I do, why you do what you do. Let's start that. Okay. I do what I do because it's just something that happens to come natural and just through accidental discovery, I realized it doesn't come natural to everybody.

It fell in my lap a little bit. I used to have a business before where I was servicing people in their [00:01:00] homes and somebody asked me just to, tidy up a closet. It was a bit random, but she asked me to do it. And I was there and I was like, sure, I can do it. And I did it in short time.

And she just couldn't understand how I'd done it so quickly and effectively. I was a bit confused with her response because. It just seems so obvious to me what I'd done there but then it happened a couple more times with some other people and that was when I realized that not everybody has that skill set or they don't have the vision necessarily.

Some people are very studious and they've got to read about organizing and then they think if they can read it all then they can put it into practice, but then they're still hung up on the actual practical aspect, so not everybody has that visualization, just start and it'll organically come together, they don't have that trust unless they can actually see the finished result in their mind that they're not always prepared to give it a try.

Yeah, it was a little bit [00:02:00] accidental. Yeah, that's great. And I think like with everything, organization, because that's what you do, organization is a skill set that not everybody has. Some of us develop it, but some of us don't. And then it's a matter of, Okay, do I want to spend all that time developing it so it's really good and I can organize, but then that takes time, not only developing the skillset, but even organizing your own home or spaces in the home, or do I just want to hire a professional?

And that's what you do. Yeah. And to do it for yourself. If it's not. That natural thing for yourself, and you're, trying to force it a little bit. It's just so hard, because you're mentally processing so many different things, and you're also distracted by so many different things, because we don't all have oodles of time to work on little projects at home.

So if you're squeezing it in before picking up the kids from sports or making dinner or grocery shopping, or [00:03:00] finishing projects in your own career or whatever, then you really don't have the full capacity to think it through all the way to the end and you end up making. more mess actually, because there's no magic wand that, even when we come in, we don't just look at the space and then just fix it.

We make a mess before we fix it. So there's always that hurdle you have to get across. So a lot of people will make the mess, they'll pull all this stuff out because they want to create order in that space, but then they end up with this mountain of work to do and get burnt out and then don't know what to do next and now it's worse.

Yeah, that's where outsourcing really helps because, we're not going to leave it like that. We're going to fix it for you, and we don't have the distractions you have in your home so we can just get to it. Yeah, and I totally agree because talking about that, I think, unless you enjoy doing it, very often it becomes this task I know about me that's not something I enjoy, right?

That you just put out because you [00:04:00] know that it requires a good chunk of time to do it properly. And then I don't want to spend that time. If I have that time, I'd rather do something else with it, right? You can start, make a mess, and then get overwhelmed. Or sometimes, like me, you don't even start because you know realistically how much time this can take.

And then you're like if I'm going to spend four hours doing this, do I really want to spend the time doing it? And, I think too the motivation dissipates pretty quick. When your heart's not really in it. And then you do think, Oh, why did I start this?

You might want the finished result, but actually getting through the process is not enjoyable. Yeah. Because, so let's talk about some transformation that your clients go through because you help clients, downsize.

upsize, move or organize disorganized spaces. I know you do, estate clearings. And I think we talked about it [00:05:00] during our coaching where in some cases it requires a lot of vulnerability on the client side, to open up their home, their space. for you and let you organize it so that makes it similar a bit to coaching where you need your client to open up and feel vulnerable, but then the transformation they can go through is awesome.

And I know you have a lot of those stories, so I would love for you to share a little bit about that. Yeah. Vulnerability is absolutely key to a really awesome transformation. And the vulnerability part can be terrifying, right? So often people don't call me because they know they're gonna have to be vulnerable.

They've got to show you something that they're not necessarily proud of. And that can be really difficult. So you know, the people that do reach out usually, first [00:06:00] of all, they say I'm embarrassed. So right away, I know that they're delicate, so we just have a conversation and I let them know that.

It doesn't matter to me how they got where they got. It doesn't matter. You don't have to divulge all the information, the bereavement you suffered, or the divorce you went through, or the childhood that you had. Sometimes you're just a chaotic person, and you might be amazing being a chaotic person, but at home maybe it's not serving you so well living in the chaos.

But, so when they tell me that they're You know, embarrassed. I know that they're, delicate. So we always have a chat and usually I'm not really sure what it is about our chats that we have, but they start to open up and they get very comfortable with me. And then it's like the trust is starting to develop even in that very first phone call.

And then if they let [00:07:00] me come to the house to see it, we're usually going to win because. They don't always let everybody in. They don't even let their friends in sometimes. So if they let me in, I know that they are committed to this change, to the journey they're going to go through.

And I had one lady this year, she was amazing. She had a very sick husband. She was a caregiver to her husband for two solid years and then he passed away. And that was two years ago. So she'd been on her own for two years and she loved shopping. She loved clothes. She just loved clothes.

So she had the most enormous amount of clothes, but through her caregiving and stuff she wasn't taking care of herself, so her body weight had changed and all of these clothes didn't fit her. She had storage lockers off site, she had three, full of clothes, and her house was full of clothes.

And because she was now on her own, she was like, I don't know, I don't know what to do with it all, so it was suffocating. Her family wanted her to live, [00:08:00] her son wanted her to live back East. Her sisters wanted her to live in Alberta.

We're in British Columbia and she was like, Oh, I don't know. I think I'm going to live with my son, but then he's always away traveling. So I'll just be there on my own. So maybe I should live with my sisters, but I don't know if I want to be in Alberta. It was just a mess. I was there really to help her go through more than just a decluttering, transformation.

There was like something else going on for her. So she allowed me to bring in a life coach, which was awesome because the life coach got her to a place where she realized she wanted to stay in British Columbia. She didn't want to be with her family. Her life was here. She had friends here and she wanted to stay here.

So that was amazing because then we could really look at the space knowing exactly what we were doing. She wasn't packing it all onto a truck and going back east. And, so we just were able to really concentrate on the space that she currently lives in and get it dialed in to suit her best.

And we worked with her [00:09:00] for quite some time, actually. And we did lots of different projects where we got rid of all of her storage lockers and, she's now having a bit of a break. It was a lot and she's going to revisit in the new year and we're going to start to do some stuff in the house.

And she is still going to sell a house, but she's going to stay here. So we just need to do the next stage. The transformation in herself is just amazing. Her best friend worked with us a lot and she said, I haven't been allowed in the house for a long, long time. I can't believe she let you in.

That was just massive to me. I felt so honored that she trusted me enough, just from one phone call to allow me to come in and help her. And the confusion she had about what she was supposed to do now in her life, she'd been looking after it. husband for such a long time. She didn't really know who she was.

She didn't really have any identity of her own. And so this life coaching that she had really made a massive change for her. And she just feels so [00:10:00] empowered and, ready to actually enjoy this next chapter in her life, because she's still got a life to live, she's still young enough to start again.

So I just feel like it's just magical being, You know, along for the ride and being able to help her some way and to watch her blossom is just amazing. I love it. I love it. You know what? I love how you become that catalyst for the change, because as you say, like often clutter or whatever that is

It's a manifestation of something deeper going on. But then very often as humans, we don't know that, or we don't want to realize that, or whatever the case might be. So we reach out and we want to address the symptom, which also needs to be addressed. With your case, because you build such strong connections with the clients and then they really trust you, you're able to get to the root cause and then help them, whether it's bringing another professional, whether it's, through your services, help them.

[00:11:00] And that's what it's like. I think the magical about transformation because she transformed really understanding what she wants to do in her next chapter of life. Because the previous one has been challenging, but also get it started with your help by actually implementing it. 

Yeah. With her love for shopping, because she was so sad, a lot of grieving, but also a lot of confusion. She was lost actually. She was a bit lost, but, the shopping made her feel good. But then when she got it home, it made her feel not good because it was just adding to the complexity of everything, but she was like building a cocoon, right?

She was like hiding amongst all the stuff and she was suffocating herself. So she, it's so amazing that she had the strength to say, no, I do want something different for myself. Yeah, and it took her a long time to call me though because I used to write a column in a paper years ago and I really honestly thought nobody ever read it.

[00:12:00] And she had cut my column out and stuck it on a fridge and it had been on there for years. Her sisters that lived in Alberta when they would visit this. Look at this thing on her fridge and say, are you ever going to call this woman? But she did. So it just takes a while sometimes. But that would be a good segue to our next question.

But that is more business related, let's say, but that just tells you the power of marketing. And that when we have a value to offer to our ideal clients. It's our duty to put it out there and market our business and never stop because you never know. Even if you're doing something right now that you don't think it's working, just like you Jen, right?

You wrote that column many, many years ago. You didn't know nothing directly came from it. And yet so many years ago, you have this client that hang on to it and you were able to create such a positive change in their life. That's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. It was that one, one experience [00:13:00] was worth all of those columns I wrote.

Yeah. Exactly. So keep marketing your business, everybody. So let's talk about your transformation as a business owner, because I've had the pleasure and honor to be coaching you for this year and seeing you transform has been. My, fulfillment. I wanted, the audience to hear it more from your perspective and your experience.

First of all, what made you reach out for help, for a business coach, but also talk through the main points of that transformation, from your perspective, like what were the main I have moments or pivotal moments that just watch you help because like I think you reached a brand new level at the end of this year and I'm so excited for 2025 for you.

So let's talk about that start and I might add some questions as we go. I really, I'd been in business for quite a few years for [00:14:00] myself. So I knew how to interact with my client base. I knew how to deliver what I promised to deliver. My due diligence around that was fine.

My problem was how do I get more people to notice me? So that was when I reached out to you and, I was, really hungry to learn the answer to that. And also a bit nervous cause I knew you were going to ask me to do things that I might not want to do. But I made a commitment to myself, that I'm going to do all the things because, I've been in business for many years and my business isn't growing as quickly as I would like. So I obviously needed the the mentoring. So then you came along. So that was great. I'd never been to business school or anything like that. I just figured it out on my own. So like you were like my business school, but also you are my spirituality [00:15:00] coach.

And, I'm a big believer in my spirituality. Getting the little kit from you after I signed up with the little, journal and the little gifts. That was just really lovely. Cause I love all that. I love doing my gratitude and my daily practice. So that was just like another reason to dive into that a bit more seriously.

And it felt less, I don't know, studious, I guess it was a bit more fluid. And I found that, the first few sessions we had weren't terrifying. They weren't as bad as you thought they would have been. That's right, it was, you didn't ask me to approach people, I wasn't really reaching out to anybody.

So it wasn't like I had an external fear. It was just stuff within myself you were asking me to do. So it was like, getting clearer on stuff within my business, which was hard for my brain. Cause I was like, Oh, I don't know how to say this in words. I know how I feel about things, but [00:16:00] how do I say it in words?

That was testing me, but I was willing to go through it because we had to start somewhere. I've never done it before. So it was really good. With our sessions being weekly, that was absolute game changer, I really needed that accountability weekly, because I could not do my homework.

There wasn't enough time to get away with it. Yes. I knew you were coming. That's why I believe in weekly sessions, right? Because if you chunk the homework in small pieces and then we meet weekly, most of the time you'll do it. And it was great. And then we could, whatever challenges or confusions I might've had in the week, we were able to adapt our sessions to talk about those things.

So I really felt like it was designed. for me, right? It was very personal to me. It wasn't like you said, Oh no, on week one, we're going to do this and this. And I'm like, Oh, okay okay, we do this. And it was actually things that were coming up for me, you would address. So everything was very appropriate [00:17:00] and in real time.

So that was awesome. And then when we got to some sort of. outreach stuff where I had to connect with the outside world. It was just really awesome having you support me in that, like how I go about that and how I feel about the reactions I might get. There's going to be people that never respond to me and how I handle that.

That was really good because before I would have been Oh, I'm being a nuisance to someone. I shouldn't keep reaching out like that. I would go inwards, but you had me understand that this is all part of the practice, these people don't really know what you have to offer.

So they need to be reminded and it's totally fine to remind them. So it was really great having your support. And then when we got to some like really hard stuff.

The really hard stuff, like public speaking. That was terrifying, but I knew [00:18:00] you were going to ask me, I just thought there's just no way I can hire a coach and they don't ask me to push through that challenge. It's just impossible. So I knew you were going to, and then, when the time came and it was.

Appropriate because I think somebody had actually invited me to speak. It was like, Oh, okay there's no better time than now with your support. You can help me create the presentation that I needed to create. And I could practice with you and because I knew you so well, by that point, it was comfortable, I didn't feel so stupid.

Yeah, so that was just, it was crazy how I went from absolutely sick to my stomach and terrified, like I wanted to close my business and not do it. Let's just not do business. Let's just sit at home every day. I would rather take that action than do the [00:19:00] public speaking, but no, I made a commitment. So I was going to have to learn it.

So it was just amazing how I went from terrified to prepared to stand in front of people and do it no matter what happens. And it was a game changer actually, because people I, once I'd done that first one, I then got invited somewhere else and my reaction to it was, sure, I can do that, rather than, oh my God, so it was amazing how quick the, the comfort level shifted.

Yeah. It is amazing. And you know what, because I truly believe as humans, we are capable of so many things. And sometimes that initial fear, and it comes, in different intensity, depending on what it is, holds us back, right? And if we [00:20:00] never do the steps to overcome it, we never know whether we can do something or not and how good we are because you are a great public speaker.

That's the whole thing. The fear was holding you back, but Ultimately, I'm so glad you overcame it because you're such a great public speaker. And through that, you can show so many more people what you do and how you help them. And you can impact so many more lives through it, 

truly impacts your life. Yeah. Yeah. It was great. And I couldn't say that I'm, dying to do the next one. But, I've had to do three this year. And that is three more than I have ever done in my life because I've avoided it at every junction of my life. So that's insane. And now I, if somebody else asked me, the answer to the invite will depend on what's [00:21:00] happening in my current life at that time.

It won't be based on fear. It'll be based on other things. Yeah. God, how freeing. Yeah. And Ollie, so the one follow up question to that, because as you said We took small steps into how you were marketing your business and so on, right? And you, we went from what was comfortable to then okay, let's reach out to build some, especially strategic partnerships, right?

So just for the audience, the reach out wasn't necessarily to direct clients, but more built strategic partnerships. And then. The public speaking, when the opportunities came, we didn't want to reject them, right? We wanted to accept them and go. So if you can say was the work worth it, right?

Because sometimes we're thinking about, Oh my God, all that fear, all that we're going to go through. But when we're in that fear, our brain doesn't think about, but if I do it, what's on the other side? [00:22:00] So maybe share with the audience, whoever's listening, was it worth it? If so, why was it worth it to overcome the fear to do the work, to be uncomfortable?

Yeah. It's absolutely worth it. The strategic partners are a big part of my networking. I regard them highly. It's totally worth it to find out that those people that can help me grow my business are just people. For some reason I had them on a pedestal before oh, they've got these fancy highfalutin jobs.

And there's just little old me trying to run my small business, but want a piece of the action. Like, why do they want to talk to me? They do want to talk to me because I have this valuable service that can help them with their clients. And of course they want to look better for their clients.

What can they provide their clients that their competitors don't [00:23:00] provide bringing me in as an extra service is game changing for them too. I had to get over that, insecurity or, maybe a little bit imposter syndrome lingering in there.

But no more like I, I have my strategic partners and I look for more all the time because we have a great thing going on. And I had started to develop that before I met you. And I really wanted to expand on it and I was trying and I wasn't really getting anywhere and I couldn't understand what I was doing wrong.

So I think working with you through that in a bit more detail was really helpful. Because, for sure, like in the course of a year, I've almost doubled my revenue to the year before. And that is absolutely because I've worked with you. So excited for you.

100 percent I credit that to your support on my business. You did the work, right? You were willing to get uncomfortable. [00:24:00] You were willing to do it, right? Because of course I can help and I can, tailor the coaching so it's as easy as possible and I can help with strategy but then from the other end, the client doesn't want to do it.

then the results are not gonna magically just happen, right? If you don't do it, what are you signed up for? You don't want to hire a coach and pay them and think that things will just happen because you paid. You've got to be willing to do the work.

For sure. And that is so similar to the clients I mentioned at the beginning of this conversation, the ones that want to read the theory of organizing, they think if they keep reading it, they'll suddenly be organized, but you have to do the practical part. And that would be the same as, hiring you and not doing my homework I'm just not going to get the results.

Yeah, so yeah, it's been great. And I am, having done 12 months and seeing the results, which is great. And now I see other areas in my business that really needs my attention. [00:25:00] I'm so looking forward to us working together and working through those because I, as confident as I am in lots of areas in my business, there's this.

one other area that I still don't have confidence in. So let's work through that and see what this time next year looks like. Yeah. Yeah. I'm super excited. So that brings me to my next question and a little bit about how the vision for your business changed over this past year. And how do you see the possibilities in your business?

Because I always say, like, where we are gives us a certain perspective, right? And there's things we don't see because of where we are. And then when we grow, and then our business grows, our perspective changes, like going up on the mountain and at the bottom of the mountain, you can only see so bar out and when you're on top of the mountain or somewhere even halfway through your perspective changes, right?

So how has that changed for you? And even like the way you make decisions in your [00:26:00] business, how has that evolved? I've removed any limitations for a start. So that's awesome. Learning to the next thing we're going to work on is systemizing, all of my brands values. That means that I can clone myself in all of my crew, because, right now my brand is me, people expect to see me, but I can't have the growth I want and continue with that.

Systemizing means we can clone me. The people that work for me. And that's so great because I don't think I would have understood how to figure that out on my own. So with you, that's going to be so much easier. But then given that's in place, there's no limit. There's no limit. I don't really know what, like how big I want my business to be at all.

I really don't want to put [00:27:00] a size on it. It'll just be whatever feels right for me. It'll be organic, just like my services are. But having it systemized and having it work in that way means that I'm building something that I can ultimately sell. When the time comes, and that's awesome like that.

I've worked so hard on something that I can actually cash in on when retirement. comes like I think that's such a great investment opportunity that we have when we create it. businesses, right? That are, that you can, the service that is being delivered, you can replicate, right? And other people can do it as long as you set the foundation, have the proper systems in every aspect of that business, right?

So then that hard work doesn't only give you like current results and current returns, but also like it pays off in the end down the [00:28:00] line as an investment. So yeah, that's amazing. Okay, so then, is there anything else you wanted to talk about or add that we missed or didn't talk about?

If not, that's fine. 

 I think there's been like most weeks when I've worked with you, there's been stuff that we're going to, we've been working towards and that's ultimately what we're going to work on. But there's been some weeks where I'm like, you know what? I actually don't have anything to talk to you about.

And you're like, it's okay, I've got it. And you'd just pick something up right away and off we'd go again. And it always seemed to be exactly the thing I needed. So I don't know what superpower that is of yours, but it's a good one. That's my superpower. Knowing what my clients need. But ultimately it's a collaboration, right?

And I think that's what it works the best when there's things you bring to the table that we work on, right? Because of course, you're in your business day in and day out and things come up and those weekly [00:29:00] sessions allow us to address certain things or make them better or learn for the future, right?

If there's a situation that happened how can we take better lessons from it and put certain systems in place to prevent certain things happening or improve and there's things that I see that you or other of my clients don't see because we all have blind spots, right?

We are all, emotionally attached to what do we do in our business and that creates certain blind spots. So when that collaboration happens, that's when it's most powerful when we move the past. Before we finish, if you can let people know where they can find you, where they can connect with you, and then maybe talk about the areas of service, because you are a local business, you are in British Columbia, so you serve clients in British Columbia, but if you can define that a little bit more, that would be great.

Yeah, you're right. It is very localized. So I serve clients through the Lower Mainland, the greater Vancouver area, [00:30:00] and, you can reach me through my website. It is actually going through a bit of an overhaul, so it might look a bit funky right now, but it's deliberatedecisions. ca. Instagram is the best way to see a little bit of behind the scenes stuff.

I post quite a few stories. So of course they come and go frequently. And that is Instagram. It's, Deliberate Decisions. I do have LinkedIn and I do have Facebook too. Wonderful. And we'll put All those slangs in the show notes and wherever you're watching or listening to this podcast. So that will be available and you can reach out to Jennifer and connect with her that way.

Thank you so much, Jen. That was great. I'm glad you did it and that's public speaking. So I'm glad you did it. Thank you so much. Thanks, Maggie.