Diamond Effect - Strategies to Scale Your Service Business as a Sellable Asset

EP # 223 - The Woman Behind the Podcast: Fun Facts, Deep Beliefs, and Why I Do What I Do

Maggie Perotin

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You've been listening to my podcast, hearing my voice, learning from my frameworks - but do you actually know who I am?

Recently, I was running an event with local entrepreneurs, and someone mentioned they'd heard about the Diamond Effect Podcast. It hit me: my podcast is being talked about in rooms I'm not in, which means more of you are listening... but you might not really know Maggie.

I'm naturally introverted. I love to teach and share value, but I don't often talk about myself. So today, I'm changing that.

This is a more relaxed, fun episode where I'm sharing 10 fun facts about me and 10 core beliefs and values that drive everything I do - personally and in my business.

What you'll discover in this episode:

10 Fun Facts - From the three languages I speak (with accents in all of them!) to my secret love of basketball, why I can seem intimidating at first, and the special significance of the number 23.

10 Core Beliefs and Values - The principles that guide everything I do, from respect and kindness to leadership, unlimited potential, love, and giving back. These aren't just nice ideas - they're the foundation of how I coach and how I live.

My Journey to Coaching - How I went from 13+ years in corporate leadership (sales, operations, service excellence, people leadership, and more) to burning out, leaving it all behind, and building a business helping service-based entrepreneurs scale sustainably.

Why This Episode Matters:

If you've been listening to the podcast but don't really know the woman behind the microphone, this episode is for you. Understanding my values and beliefs will help you understand why I coach the way I do - and whether we're the right fit to work together.

This is probably the most vulnerable episode I've ever recorded. I don't usually talk about myself like this. But I think it's time you got to know me beyond the business frameworks and strategies.

Why Episode 223?

The number 23 has special significance for me (you'll have to listen to find out why!), so this felt like the perfect episode to finally introduce myself properly.

I hope you enjoy this more personal side of the podcast. Let me know what you thought - email me at maggie@stairwaytoleadership.com.

Mentioned in this episode:

Want to work together? Book a complimentary consultation at https://www.stairwaytoleadership.com/

Hello dear Diamond Effect podcast listeners. Welcome to episode 223. So yesterday I was running an event, ask the expert, ask me anything with collaboration of a local organization that supports entrepreneurs. And we were doing sales and I was the expert and people who came, even though they're local, I didn't know them.

And yet one of the participants of that event told me when, when I was, I. And yet when I was introduced and people who were introducing me mentioned my podcast Diamond Effect, one of the participants said, oh yeah, I heard about it. So then that makes me realize that my podcast is being.

Talked about or mentioned in the rooms I'm not in and that maybe more and more of you are listening, but yet you might not know who Maggie is [00:01:00] because yes, I talk about myself a little bit in the episodes and maybe in the past I've done an episode about me. But that doesn't come to me naturally. So I'm rather introverted and I love to teach.

I love to share what I know and the value and kind of how business owners thrive. But I sometimes forget that you might wanna know who am I? You might wanna know who is behind that microphone as a person. You might wanna know more about me. So as I met lately, a lot of new people and they started like they subscribed for the podcast, and maybe you found this podcast randomly and you don't even, you've never met me in person.

I thought, why not make an episode more fun, more relaxed, just talking about me? And because it's the episode 223 and number 23 is in it, which is special for me. I'll explain it [00:02:00] later. I thought, okay, let's do it in this podcast. So yes, today I'm going to talk about 10 fun facts about me, but also 10 values and beliefs that are very important to me personally and in my business.

Now, this is not an exclusiveness of beliefs or values that I live by just like you. It's probably way more than that, right? As human beings we're more, way more complex. But it will be a good start and at the end I will quickly share about how I became a coach and why I do what I do. For those of you who don't know that story.

Okay, so let's get started. 10 fun facts about me. Number one, I speak fluently, three languages. So my mother tongue is polish. I'm originally Polish my first language. By now it's actually English. I already think in English it's easier for me to talk in English. So that's my first [00:03:00] language. And I also speak fluently French.

Now when I see these speak, these three languages, I have accent bar now and all three of them, including my mother tongue. And that's funny. Because I started learning English and French as a child, so I don't have a heavy Polish accent in it. And my French comes from Europe. So for example, when I speak French in Canada, people think I am French from France, I'm Parisian French.

But when I go to France and speak French, then people think I'm Canadian, that I have Canadian accent. So that's funny. Also, I used to learn a bit of German and Russian. So Russian I had to learn it in primary school because at that time, Poland was under Communist regime.

I can't say I can hold the conversation in those languages. I just understand little things.

Number two, my favorite color is green. I love nature. I love all the shades of [00:04:00] green that nature creates, but green is my favorite. It has such a calming effect on me. I just love the color. Number three, favorite music. I actually don't have favorite genre in music. I was never a big fan or just one band.

For example, my husband loves Pearl Jam. That's his favorite band ever. Me. I like diverse music. If you look at my playlist, I have classical music in there. I have pop rock, r and b and hip hop. I even have Disney songs and some, from movies that I watched with my kids and I really loved. So what I love about music is the emotion that it can.

Create in me or bring out it with me. I definitely love melodic songs or melodic pieces, so when there's a melody, not just beat. But yeah, I love all kinds of genres of music. Now, my favorite artist right now is my [00:05:00] husband, so I have to say, but outside of it, I love many other artists.

Fan fact number four is I used to dance in the Polish folk dance group and, I danced for six years, so from the end of my primary school throughout high school and then the year after now, I wasn't a great dancer. But we danced in a group. We had a very good kind of company where we were all friends and through that dance group we traveled.

We went to England and Italy and throughout Poland we did festivals. Not so much competitions, but more festivals, it was so much fun. I love to dance. I love to go out and dance even though I don't do it as much. Dance brings me joy. It's a way for me to express myself and be creative, and I love it, even though my daughter's way better and dance at her stage than I ever was.

Another one. Not [00:06:00] sure if it's a fun fact, but as I'm going into my second part of my forties, I realized I started peri-menopause. Which has, it's fun and not so fun consequences. I'm not gonna talk about it a lot because I know that all my listeners who, different genders, different ages, who cares about perimenopause.

But if you're a woman who is listening to it and it's going through it or menopause and you ever wanna chat and have some laughs about it, I'm in. Just let me know.

But also I actually wanna recommend a great TikTok her. So if you're into perimenopause, menopause, wanna have some laughs. I've recently started following her. Her handle is just being Melanie and she's like a founder of We Do Not Care Club. If you wanna have fun and just laugh, follow her on TikTok. I'm not sure if she's on Instagram. I always have great laughs.

Fun fact number six. I [00:07:00] love good food overall. I love to travel, so I love the cuisine of the world. I actually don't have, just like with music, one favorite dish. I love Italian cuisine and Indian cuisine and Caribbean cuisine and French cuisine. There's Polish cuisine.

Mexican. Every country has something and I just love to try. And I love to travel and try different foods with that. I do love to cook when I have time, not during the week, but for holidays and during, the weekend, it actually is meditative for me and I get to create my own recipes, my own dishes.

I love to do it. I'm pretty good at it. My family doesn't complain about my cooking. 

Fun fact number seven. I can seem quite intimidating in the beginning, like the first impression when you meet me,

when I'm passionate about it and I talk about it, I get so much into it that, I don't think about how I [00:08:00] look or how I project my passion. And also because I'm tall, I'm five foot. Eight, I think in the feet, 174 centimeters. So when people see me the first time, I can see sometimes from their look like they get intimidated, but I promise you, I'm not that scary.

I'm just passionate and tall you don't choose that. So it is what it is.

I like to be active, but I hate going to the gym. So I like to be active because I do value my health and I love to be, I wanna be healthy for me, for my business, for my kids, my family. I really, feeling good is the most important. I'm always grateful for my health, but I also take care of my health and I'm proactive as much as I can.

So I like to walk and hike, and I used to ski. Don't like it. So much too cold in Canada for me as I age, but swimming, biking, all those things. But gym, I [00:09:00] always hated it. Like I tried so many times, but going to the gym, doing stuff, hated it. Now lately, because of my aging and perimenopause, I started doing a bit of strength exercises, but thank God my husband, we have a mini gym in the basement,

put together for himself. And he took on the pain of getting me started, of personal training and doing a bit of strength exercises. So by now I'm okay with it. I don't hate it anymore. But yeah, I wouldn't go to a public gym and exercise. Don't like it. Strange. I guess that's a fun fact about me.

Okay. Number nine. My favorite sport is actually basketball. So before dance in primary school I played basketball. I was in a, in the class that was sports focused and we played basketball. We even won one championships in our like. Region or our state, if you wanna call it in Poland. So I wasn't [00:10:00] one of the best, I was okay, but I really enjoyed it.

Logged NBA at that time as well. So huge fan of basketball, even though I don't follow it currently as much. Still love the game. So the last one is the number 23. So actually my birthday is on November 23rd. I was born on the 23rd of 11 month. And for my husband, this is a very special number. Maybe one of the reasons is that Michael Jordan.

Had the jersey in number 23, and he's a big NBA fan as well. I love Michael Jordan, but to tell you the truth, I had no idea that his Jersey number was 23 until my husband told me but I think when we met and he found out that my birthday was on the 23rd, it helped me. So not gonna complain about that number.

Looks like it's a special number and things happen for a reason. So there we go. On to more serious, if you [00:11:00] wanna call it this way stuff. And let's talk about. My beliefs, 10 core beliefs and values that go with it that are really important to me in my personal and business life.

So you might get to know me a little bit more as a coach, where my philosophy stems from and what I stand for. So let's get started. Number one is respect. Respect for the other human being. I truly believe that as human beings, we're all equal. We're born babies onto this earth. Whether you believe in God or Mother Nature, they bring us here all equal.

And for that, every human being deserves respect from another human being. And I really believe it's our human right to be respected. I'm very passionate about it. I drill it into my kids, and when they don't do it, I get quite mad. I don't get mad at a lot of things, but this [00:12:00] is one of the things that I'm very passionate about because ultimately we don't choose where we're born, when we're born, to what circumstances we're born.

None of it is chosen by us. I always remember, being born in. Common East Poland. When we started traveling with my dad a little bit to the west and I started seeing that there's different ways of living and that people could have much more, let's say, comfortable and better lives to what we had.

Even though, we weren't. Bad off in comparison to Western Europe, at that time it was night and day and I was always thinking like, why can't I have that right? I'm not that different than. The other people, I'm also a human being, so why can I create something like that for me?

And not in a bad sense, like being jealous, but thinking I can create that too. But that came from, my really ingrained belief that we're all equal. We all deserve the [00:13:00] same opportunities to actually be able to create the life that we want. Okay, so now belief and value number two is kindness.

Being a bigger person, and that's not easy to do even for me. Sometimes it requires, will and training yourself, especially in emotional intelligence and self-awareness because when say somebody. That's something wrong to us or upsets us, or there are circumstances that affects us negatively, our.

Default response usually are negative feelings, right? That's how we are wired as human beings. This is our brain protective system where we get angry or scared or whatever it is, right? We react certain way, and being able to be kind and also think through stuff and be a bigger person requires. Us to respond [00:14:00] to situations not react, and that requires building self-awareness and emotional intelligence.

But it's such an important thing to do. It helps us become compassionate towards other people. It helps us try to understand where they're coming from, even if we don't agree with their acts or words that they say or their beliefs it creates, more peace and more understanding.

Ultimately, it benefits us as individuals, right? With kindness and compassion. Ability to let go, not hold grudges, ability to forgive. We feel better, right? Our lives are better. And then ultimately it positively affects other humans. So that's important to me as well. Another strong belief that I have that actually transcends as well into my business and value is leadership.

And I truly believe that [00:15:00] we're all leaders, so every single human being on this earth is a leader. And why? Because it starts with us. We should. Lead ourselves and our lives first. And by leading, intentionally making decisions about what we want our life to be, the impact we wanna make, who do we wanna be rather than just.

Follow through like circumstances and let things happen to us when we're intentional and we're leading our lives, we're making intentional decision. We create our own reality and we can all. Do it. As I mentioned, being born in a communist regime, I necessarily didn't like the circumstances I was in.

And even after, Poland came out of communist regime and was doing the best to get into being like more [00:16:00] westernized country in the beginning it was hard for. Poly citizens. When I came out of the university, I spoke the three languages I speak that I mentioned before, and I was making $300 a month, and as a young professional, very ambitious and driven, having high dreams, I didn't see how I would be able to do that, making this little of money.

For example, that's why one of the key reasons why I immigrated to Canada, right? I used the program for immigrants that was there, but I came to create a better life for me. That's why, I will never say anything bad about immigrants. I'm one of them. And you can blame people for wanting a good and better life for them and their family.

Now, I don't wanna get into the legalities of it. And, being illegal, it's totally different than being legal. But from the very [00:17:00] bottom foundation of people wanting to create a better life for themselves, we all want that the same. As human beings, we're very similar.

80 70% of what we do is similar. We wanna be loved and safe, and we want to create good life for ourselves and our loved ones. That's the bottom line.

Another part of leadership is that, of course, first of all, we lead ourselves in our lives as we grow up and go out to the world, for example, as parents, we're also leaders, right? We lead our kids, we lead our family. If you're a business owner, even if you're the single person you lead your business, you then might become a leader or father.

People, whether you're a community leader or politician or a leader in a company. Does not matter. Our job as leaders is to help people. We lead. Thrive. Remove the roadblocks from their [00:18:00] path.

Help them learn and empower them to learn what they need to learn to be successful, not to control, not to, for them to make what we want by, fear, tactics and, intimidation tactics. As a parent, for example, one of the things is I have my kids for them, not for me. I want them to be the best human beings they can be.

I want them to reach the highest potential and not do what I think they should be doing, or what I wish I did and didn't do, and it's very hard to do as a parent. Nobody's perfect me, not included, but that's my core belief and that drives, for example, my parenting.

The fourth belief 'cause of that. Is that as human beings, we all have unlimited potential we can do. And we're so much more [00:19:00] powerful and able and capable than we ever give ourselves credit for. And that does come from our limiting beliefs and our fears and then the mind that sometimes inner critic, that sometimes plays against us, even myself.

But ultimately. Whether it's my clients that I coach and so on, I know that if you want something and you have a goal that's really important to you, you are capable of achieving it, not because you know ahead how to do it or because you have certain circumstances that are easier for you to achieve it.

Because you're capable of learning anything you need to learn to achieve that goal. And you're capable of figuring out anything you need to figure out. And yes, sometimes we need help. I needed help. My clients need help. But you are also capable of asking for that help, right? Recognizing when you need it and asking for that help.

So I really have [00:20:00] that growth mindset and that's one of my values, growth and learning because I believe we can learn anything. Most of the things, like things that are. Allowing us to achieve the goals we want to create, the life of our dreams, our all learnable skills, not something that you're born with or not, I don't believe in that.

I really believe you can learn anything. You can acquire anything that is necessary for you to have a life and business that you want.

Okay? Believe number five. I know we're getting serious here, but I guess, believe number five. I do believe that things happen for a reason, and the value, I guess that goes with it is trust, trusting that universe has your back, that God loves you and has a purpose for you. And yes, you create that road. [00:21:00] You need to be intentional and listening to your intuition, right?

To what? God, A universe is telling you through it and takes steps towards it. But as you go through that hero's journey, and sometimes it gets hard and sometimes you have challenges, that there is a reason for everything and then ultimately you will be fine. But even like the choices we make in our lives, if you listen to intuition, you get guidance.

And I'll give you example too. Examples from my life where I made certain choices and I had like other choices in front of me that ultimately led me to where I am. And if I went with that different choice, I wouldn't be here. There would be something else happening, right?

So the first situation was when I was applying to my master's degree University back in Poland. The program that I really wanted to apply to was a very specific [00:22:00] and unique program that was run at that time, only by one or two universities in Poland, one of the best and the oldest universities in Poland.

And it was to prepare us to be civil servants of the European Union to represent Poland in the European Union. But the way that program was structured, it had languages, so English and French. It had a bit of business and bit of law like commerce, commercial, economics, sorry,

The way that program prepared us was a good whole rounded education, which I loved about it. It had some law, some business, some humanistic, subjects like sociology and philosophy and things like that. Languages and also like of course, European law and so on. So the first time I tried to get in, even though I passed the exams, I didn't score high enough and I didn't get in to the [00:23:00] program because it was only like, I think 40 spots for the entire Poland.

And of course the ratio for people who wanted to get was eight to one. And I think my lowest score was English. Probably English. So then I decided to wait a year, study more and try again. But that second year, I thought to myself, okay, I didn't have plan B the first time. I try in case I don't get in, I don't wanna wait another year.

I need a plan B. So at the same time, when I applied to my original program, I also applied to law school. In Poland law, you study for five years, it's different, right? So you go straight from high school to law school, and at that time I passed both exams and I got into both programs.

So now I had a choice to make. Either I go to law school. Or I go to the program that I wanted at some point. Oh, if you go to law school, you become a lawyer, [00:24:00] you make good money. All those things. I did not wanna do both. It was just too much of learning and commitment.

But ultimately, I went with my original choice to do what I wanted to do. So I didn't go to law school. There you go. One decision and then after graduating that program, Poland wasn't yet in the European Union, and then I found out about the immigration program in Canada and I decided to apply with my partner at the same time to immigrate to Canada.

But it was a long. Time, like we waited a year and a half, I think, to get to know. So in the meantime, Poland is entering into European Union and they started doing exams for the civil servants. So I signed up for that exam again, just in case we couldn't go to Canada to potentially go to Brussels as a civil servant.

And guess what? As the exam date was set and I was about to go almost, we found [00:25:00] out that we became permanent residents. We got permanent residency in Canada, and we had, I think six months to leave Poland to move to Canada I did not go to write that exam, so like I chose Canada over potentially working for European Union.

So all those things, all those decisions, I do believe there's some destiny and the guidance and if we listen to it, like that's where we're meant to be.

Belief number. Six, I think. I think it's a six we'll get through is our interrelationship. So that might be very unorthodox as I belief, but. I believe that it's better to be alone than in a relationship that's not fulfilling and the best possible. And by that romantic relationship, and being in with somebody just to be with them or just because we don't wanna be alone, but we're not fully [00:26:00] invested in the love.

I think it's not fair to the other person, even though we might think that we'll hurt them and relieve, and it's not fair to us. I'll tell you why. Where is this belief coming from? So my parents divorced when I was 11, but before they divorced, I witnessed as a child them having, fights with each other.

Not physical fights, but like verbal fights. And I remember having so many times going into my room, closing the door, doing one of these, because I didn't want the two people that I loved the most to fight with each other. And I remember the day when my dad told me that they would be divorcing.

It was difficult for me and for him. But ultimately I realized when they divorced, I felt better because I did not have to witness and get some trauma probably from [00:27:00] my parents fighting. My dad was still present in our lives. He lived close. We could see him anytime we wanted, my parents were great in that sense, where they really did.

Figure out how to communicate after the divorce, so it's in the best interest of me and my sister. There was never a time that much where my mom would say it was holding us back from seeing that, or when dad was talking bad things about mom. That never happened. And so personally, I felt loved by both of my parents.

I didn't feel. Guilty that it was my fault that they divorced. They took time to explain why it was happening. And what happened is we had peace and quiet at home. And from that I have that strong belief. Do you agree or not that it's truly better? To be alone, that in a [00:28:00] relationship that's not really good and strong and fulfilling, and it doesn't mean that it has to be perfect all the time, that you're not gonna, that you can't fight for the relationship, work it through.

But if, when it's not working, staying for the kids, it's not the right thing to do. From my personal childhood experience.

It got in a bit serious. So believe number eight and with that value is actually fun. I do love to have fun. I do love to laugh and make people laugh. And then just joy. I think that first of all, life is too short not to have fun, but also feeling joy and happiness is so healing for us.

I do like to have fun. I like to make jokes. Even during my coaching calls and my clients know that, we work hard together. I help my clients grow businesses and they work [00:29:00] hard, but at the same time, you can work hard and have a lot of fun. Believe number eight, simplicity.

So this is my personal belief, but I also bring it into my business. I do think that we can make our life and businesses as simple as possible, and we just as humans sometimes complicate things unnecessarily. Just because, we overthink, we try to be perfect. We put too much weight on certain things or whatever the case might be, right?

So with simplicity also comes value and belief that you don't have to be perfect, right? As human beings, we're not perfect, therefore whatever we create will never be perfect. But what we can strive for is excellence, doing the best we can with the resources we have, with the knowledge we have,

learning, going back to learning and making things better. And then the thing is that the simpler. You keep everything, the faster you can progress, especially in business, right? The more momentum you [00:30:00] do, and it's just easier, right? We sometimes create so much more stress and weight to put out on our shoulders because we overcomplicate things.

Just keeping things simple makes also life easier, and maybe that's also what made me so good in operations and streamlining processes and being very. Efficient because I do think always, how can I make things simpler for me because it's easier, life gets easier. Belief number nine, love. You can call me naive or whatever, but I truly believe, in true love, in real love and love, not also like romantic love, expressing love to people that are closest to you, your parents, your friends, your children.

Not just telling them, once in their lifetime or once a year, but hugging them and it's so important for me. It's so important. I can't. Survive a day without hacks. That's just not possible for [00:31:00] me. I remember as a child, I sometimes even bothered my mom too much when she was coming back from work, single mom tired, and I would just wanna snuggle with her and squeeze her and so on.

So she loved it most of the time, but sometimes I think I was, too overbearing, but I just I can't survive without it. And I think that when we. Come from that place of love and kindness, life gets easier. It's more fun. And then we feel better, right? We feel more compassionate and we just have a better life, a better experience on this earth.

So there you go. Okay. And last belief is being grateful and giving back. I don't know if it's the thing that I raised or like through my life, I came to not really expecting anything to be given to me and to be handed to me on a silver platter and anything being easy. [00:32:00] So when things come and they're easier or I get help or people mentor me or whatever, I'm super grateful for it and I never forget.

I also understand that despite humble beginnings, I also wasn't the worst of right when, even in the communist regime, it doesn't mean that we're so poor where we couldn't, have food or pay bills, right? We always have roof in our hat.

It was safe. We always had food. Clothes. Good education. There were things that were privileged, me and my sister to have, and my parents worked hard to get it for us and to provide for us. So I feel privileged in this way and every time I get to a certain new level. I wanna give back.

So I don't talk about it a lot because I guess I was raised to just do it, not to talk about it. But I do give back and I love to give [00:33:00] back, in many different ways. I volunteer in. Organizations, whether it's sitting on the board or volunteering. My experience and advice, of course I donate some money.

I mentor, people, youth and young leaders or youth with some challenges. Yeah, I give back as much as I can. One of my goals is to, as my business grows, to do more and more of that in many different capacity. So there we go. We went through 10 beliefs and 10 values. And now quickly just to let you know why I do what I do or how I came to become a business coach.

So just quickly, of course my education is in business, so as I said, I had a well-rounded education in business and economics but also as I got out of university, I was in business from the beginning. I worked in sales mostly in Poland. And then when I moved to Canada, I [00:34:00] started a career in the corporate world.

Very quickly I got promoted to junior leadership positions, and through that I grew over 15, 13, 15 plus years to more senior leadership positions. But within those, I did many different things in business, I touched. Business development. So sales, I did operations, service excellence. That's why I love service businesses.

And I, help mostly, service businesses because I was in service industry for many years. I did business analytics, risk mitigation. I was responsible for budgets, so finance stuff, people, leadership, of course, one of my favorites. Helping people grow, helping people succeed, building high performing teams, turning not so well performing teams into high performing teams, project management processes, trainings, technology changes.

Even construction project management, you name it, [00:35:00] I've done it. Dealing with clients and managing like contractors and so on. I've done it and I love it. I think business is fun. So when I burned out in my corporate career,

I was a part of a show called Legacy Makers, where my story of the burnout and a little bit more of that is featured. So if you wanna watch it, I'll put link in the show notes. But after the burnout, it got me thinking like, do I really want to continue to have a corporate career? And at that point, my answer was no.

Even though I had a really good career, I had some great mentors, I acquired a lot of skills that are now helping me to help my clients. At that point, my answer was I was done. I wanted to do something on my own, make my own decisions. Bear the consequences of those decisions and have only myself to blame, create financial freedom that only entrepreneurship can give.

You have a time flexibility that I wanted as a mom in a young family, [00:36:00] and I love my family. They're everything to me. And so I married my passion and really a good, amazing skill and knowing what people need. To grow and to achieve the goals that I practiced for 13 years, and I was really good at it and I loved it, and my passion for business and all that knowledge.

I also did an MBA in the process, so all that knowledge and experience and put it to good use. And help you business owners. So in a nutshell, that's what it is. But if you wanna hear more of that story, watch my Legacy Makers episode. I'm gonna put the link in the show notes. Okay. I hope you enjoyed this more vulnerable episode about me.

I don't think I've ever done something like that. Let me know what you thought. I would love to know. So send me an email, maggie@stairwaytoleadership.com. See you next week. Bye.

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